There are a lot of businesses out there selling the same thing. Why do some seem to attract a ton of sales or sign ups for their product when another almost identical product doesn’t do as well?
Often the key is in the copy, or the text used on the sales page, the emails, the website or the ads. Sometimes its just a small change in how you say something that makes the difference between people lining up to buy it or scrolling on to the next thing.
Nicole Kepic is with us today to give us her expertise on how to write better emails, sales pages and more. She’s walking us through how to connect with our audience, stand out in the crowd and get more people to say YES to your product or offer.
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If you're trying to write copy that sells Nicole Kerick is the woman you want in your corner. She's a conversion copywriter who specializes in sales pages, email sequences, and website. Copy her [00:01:00] specialty is helping you stand out from the crowd and attracts your ideal clients and in an evermore crowded world of offers and content creating copy that converts is really the key to the kingdom or the queen, I guess,
Kristy: Nicole, I'm so glad you're here with this today.
I'm really excited about how. I know this conversation is gonna help so many women that are building their businesses. So thank you so much for being
Nicole: here. Oh, thank you so much, Christy. I'm really excited to, I think this is something that a lot of people struggle with, to be honest and everybody needs copy for their business.
So I feel very grateful that I can provide that service to people, when, and if they need that.
Kristy: You're right. And it doesn't matter what stage of business you're at. It doesn't matter in everything we do, right. If we're doing lead magnets, if we're doing our website, if we're doing emails, it's all important.
Now, before, before you were the conversion queen, you probably had a, a winding path as we all do to get here. So what led you to the land of copywriting?
Nicole: Oh, my gosh. Yes, . I am definitely not a case of like an overnight success. I, I [00:02:00] started copywriting about 20 years ago, so that part has been long. it's only in the last two years that I've basically, gone in full time, on my own business and have been writing almost exclusively for women.
So coaches and other service providers. But yeah. Way before that I went to journalism school and then almost right out of school, I went into copywriting, but that was for, corporate companies, bigger companies writing for national brands, like very corporate. So I did that for. Yeah. Almost 20 years, basically.
And then along the way, I started my own business on the side. So I was copywriting by day nine to five, and then I had my own copywriting business on the side. And then I side hustled for 10 years, which is crazy. it's crazy. And I think I side hustled for so long because of the time I didn't really see it as becoming anything else.
I just, you know, I was doing it for extra money or because I enjoyed it. I didn't really see the option to go full time. It was just something on the side. But then [00:03:00] as the years went on, I realized, okay, this could be something more. I can, I can leave my job. I don't have to stay in the nine to five. And then ultimately I quit the nine to five because I just simply couldn't do both.
There wasn't enough time in the day and it was going against everything that I wanted in my life. More time. Freedom, more flexibility. So. You know, here I was working nine to five commuting, two hours a day, plus having a side business. It just, it came to a point where I needed to make a choice. So that's what I did.
Kristy: That's a lot of writing. I mean, when you're doing both jobs that are the same, you know, the same task set too. That's a lot of it. Wow. 10 years. Yeah. Good for you. Yeah.
Nicole: And I mean, at first the, the side hustle was just like odd jobs here and there, it wasn't anything crazy. But then, like I said, as, as the years went on, it got busier and busier and busier, which was a great thing.
And then I decided to go full time in it. And you know, at the time, I didn't know that this whole world existed of female business owners, like, especially on Instagram and all these other platforms, like. It was just like a whole new world to me, which was kind of exciting too. And how have [00:04:00] you seen
Kristy: the use of, of copy and content changing over the years?
Because I know now it seems like it's all content, everything is, is content marketing, and maybe that's just because I'm more immersed in it now, but I'm sure you've seen changes over the last 10 years on that.
Nicole: Yeah, well, I've seen it, lean more conversational, which in my mind is such a great thing because that's, that's honestly, my favorite style of copy to write is really conversational, friendly, approachable copy.
Especially coming from a place where I used to write more corporate copy. I love that avenue of having it more conversational. So I've seen a lot of business owners embrace that, which is such a good thing, especially when you're the face of your business. It's just you and you're writing to your people.
Like you want it to sound like you're a friend. Obviously you wanna sound like an expert too, but you want it to be friendly and approachable. So. I'm all for the conversational copy. And I think that
Kristy: resonates more with women in general too, doesn't it? Yeah,
Nicole: absolutely. It's just warmer and friendlier. yeah.
And you can inject your humor too. Like, it doesn't have to be so [00:05:00] like, it doesn't ha have to sound like marketing copy, which I know some people struggle with maybe, you know, a lot of people come from that nine to five corporate world and then they start their business and then they go to write an email for example, to their people.
And then they're making it sound like they're still in the corporate world when they don't have to do that.
Kristy: Yeah. And I think it's a roadblock for women in general, I hear it so often. I don't like marketing. I feel like I'm, I'm, you know, overselling. I, what if they don't wanna hear from me?
What if it's a big block for a lot of women, entrepreneurs is the marketing and the selling piece because they don't wanna sound salesy and they don't wanna, you know, be over the top with their marketing and, and while there's whole conversations we can have about that. But, that type of that type of copy must help with that
Nicole: as well.
Yeah, absolutely. I hear that all the time too. But then I also hear, hear people saying like, when they come to me, my copy's just not converting. Like it's not driving action, so they don't wanna sound salesy, but they want it to sell too. So. Absolutely. Yeah. And there's a way to do that too. You can have, you can have really genuine, authentic, even quiet copy that [00:06:00] still is really persuasive.
So, yeah, you can definitely have the best of both.
Kristy: Okay, well, let's talk about it. So you've got some really actionable tips, for all of us to help us write better copy. That's more engaging. That's more likely to convert to the sale or a sign up or whatever, whatever it is that you're trying to do, you're call to action.
So let's talk through that. What tips have you got for us today?
Nicole: Well, I would say the first one, it might seem super obvious, but always focus on your readers versus yourself. Just yesterday I had somebody reach out to me and they said, I can't take this person on and it's a client right now, but they had said, you know, I'm really struggling to sell my product and I'm not sure why.
So I went to their website and I'm not gonna name this person or anything. And I went on their website and it was just, I, I, I, I, this I, that like, it was all about them. That's just, it just radiated. It was all about them. And I thought, I think I know why you're not selling. So I provided a couple tips, but that's the biggest one you have to.
Focus on your readers. And of course, you're gonna share your story. That's so important. You're gonna, you know, talk about your CR [00:07:00] credentials or expertise, whatever, because people do wanna know that information. They wanna get to know you, but ultimately everybody who's landing on your website or reading your emails or whatever it is.
They're wondering what's in it for me. How can you make my life easier or better? So you just have to focus on your.
Kristy: I had a conversation, with a website builder the other day on the podcast and we were talking about, the, about us or the about me page, you think?
Okay, well there, I can just talk about me. Okay. But even there you, yeah. You wanna talk about you, but how does it help them? How does it relate to them? You've gotta keep it in mind, right down to that.
Nicole: Yeah, absolutely. And for the about page, I tend to, I will lead with, information geared to the reader.
So again, the headline, everything is speaking to the reader first, and then I will segue into the person's story. So it's leading with them and then going around to, you know, the person's story. So.
Kristy: So, can you give us an example, like on and about us page? So this is a little bit off topic, but I'm just interested on how that would lead in.
So on and about us page, how would you title it maybe to, to address the [00:08:00] reader? First?
Nicole: I would have the headline speak to where the reader wants to be. So that main benefit, that main transformation, what their life is gonna look like later, and then kind of. Support that with, here's how I can help you get there.
So if somebody just lands on that page right away, they're seeing the benefit for themselves, and then you bridge that with the story of how you can help the person.
Kristy: So make the reader, the star of the show is the first tip.
Nicole: Tip number two. I would say empathy is a big thing in writing, cuz people will often say, how can I sell without sounding salesy?
And really like, to me, there's no magic formula to it. It's it's really just showing that you understand your readers and then, you know, you understand their pain points, you understand where they wanna be. So it's. Showing that you understand them, and then you have the solution, the service, whatever it is to support them.
So you want your readers to be reading along nodding along and thinking to themselves like they get me, they understand me. And then that's what [00:09:00] drives that connection. And then that connection is what drives them wanting to, to buy from you essentially. So it's not like, you know, nineties, infomercial, headlines, that kind of thing.
It's just being really relatable and showing that you understand them, right? You want
Kristy: them to. Look at that page or look at that email and go what she's talking about me. She's talking to me.
Nicole: Yeah. Yeah. And exactly. She's talking to me. She's not talking to 1,000,001 people like, yes, obviously you're writing the copy knowing that more than one person or hoping at least that more than one, person's gonna read it, but your reader needs to feel like this person is like right across the table from me, we're having a coffee chat.
And it sounds like they're speaking, just to me, like a friend, a trusted
Kristy: friend. Right. And that's when really knowing your, your market and your buyer personas really comes in handy because you can use the right language. You can. Yeah, absolutely.
Nicole: Yes, absolutely. And you know, there's different, opinions on this, but for me, I think the biggest things like, yes, it's nice to know little things like what's their [00:10:00] favorite Starbucks drink or what's their favorite book.
Like those things are fun so that you can add in those like fun details as you're writing your copy. But most importantly, You need to know, what are their current pain points? What's holding them back and where do they wanna be so that you can bridge those two things with your solutions, your services.
Kristy: Excellent. And then you have, number three, paint the dream.
Nicole: I love that. yeah. So this is really like, I just mentioned pain points and then the opposite of that would be pleasure points.
So I do still believe that when you're writing copy, you do need to speak to the pain points because, you know, not to the point where it's like all doom and gloom and you know, your life is horrible or anything like that, because that just. Cheesy. Right. But you do need to bring the pain points up just again, to show the readers that you understand them and also to kind of remind them that yeah.
They need to change the situation. So you're gonna touch on those pain points. But then when I say paint the dream, then you're gonna quickly segue into, okay, what does [00:11:00] their like look like afterwards? So more focus is on the positive, so that. Overall, your copy doesn't sound. Like I said, really doom and gloom and, you know, life is horrible.
And if you don't buy this product, your life is gonna crumble. Like it's, it's more positive than anything.
Kristy: And then with that, would you touch on the, the difference between the transformation here and the benefits? Right, because I think a lot of women. Stuck selling all of the wonderful things that their product or service does rather than selling the transformation.
And it's a subtle but super important difference.
Nicole: Yeah, absolutely. And it kind of goes back to what I said earlier, where people just ultimately wanna know, like, how can you make my life easier or better? That's typically what it comes down to. So the transformation is just really speaking to that.
So, what does their day look like? What does their, life look like? So just painting that picture versus, you know, we've got five modules in this course and, you know, going into those super granular details. [00:12:00] People don't really care about, like, they can find that information out afterwards, but ultimately they wanna know how is their life gonna be easier or better.
Kristy: Yeah. So we've got to make the read of the star of the show. Be relatable, paint, the dream number four, sell from a place of serving.
Nicole: Yes then that's, to me, that's what makes selling easier. If you always approach it, cuz like you said, people are afraid to sell. Sometimes people don't even bring up their offers because they feel icky about it and they just pump out a ton of content and never really mention that they have a service or a product that they're selling.
So if you just. It's it's more of a mind set shift, really, where you just come from a place of serving thinking, there are lots of people that need the service. Like you said, in the beginning, there are a lot of people that need copywriting. So instead of me thinking, Ooh, I don't wanna push this on people.
If I change my mindset to thinking I'm helping people, then it becomes easier for me to write copy and to speak about my services. So the [00:13:00] same applies when you're writing a copy too. Yeah,
Kristy: I get, I get really passionate about this one with women, because I actually love marketing. So, so I have no problem with it.
But for women that that are hesitating to market their business. It's if your business or your service or your brand, whatever it is, if, if you are, if you believe in it, What you're doing and, and you believe you can help people or your leader product is great. Then if you're not marketing it, nobody knows about it.
And people that could really use it and really need it. You're doing them a disservice because they'll never find out about it. Right. So you, you have to get it out there. It's, you're, you're helping. And if they don't want it, they don't want it that, and that's fine. But at least they knew it was
The other thing along that line too, is that, somebody said to me, you have to remember. What be what comes easy to you doesn't come easy to somebody else. So, and that, that, that's a whole other discussion too, around pricing because you think, oh, it's so easy for me. It only takes me X amount of time, but somebody else might really struggle with that.
So they're looking for your expertise. So, yeah, [00:14:00] cuz that, those kind of things have run through my mind too, before, so,
Kristy: well I'm sure because copywriting is probably easy for you and there's so many women that struggle with it.
Nicole: Or then you get trapped in, well, what if this only, you know, I'm thinking back in the day, but say somebody wanted me to write headlines.
Well, what if the right perfect headline popped into my head in five minutes? Do I just charge for five minutes or do I charge for, that great idea that that company can now use for multiple campaigns? So, yeah, that's a whole, I just that's.
Kristy: I knew that's a whole, that's a whole session on, on pricing strategies, value pricing basis cost plus.
Yeah, that is a whole nother conversation, but it's a great point. So self from a place of serving and that's gonna help on all sorts of different levels. , number five is infuse your unique personality, which I think is so key. And I love
Nicole: this. Yeah. I mean, because there, there are just so many people doing what you do.
Like realistically, I know that there are, are bajillion other copywriters out there. So even when I'm writing my own copy, say on my website, I wanna [00:15:00] infuse my personality. Whether that's like certain phrases I commonly use or injecting humor, just don't be afraid to be different because if you start sounding like everybody else or just.
You know, I've heard other people who say they, they borrow copy from other people's website, which is probably illegal. Yeah, you're just gonna sound like everybody else. So don't be afraid to inject your own personality because that will have you stand out.
Kristy: And, and it helps you find the right people for you too.
Right? You're gonna, if you're, if you're showing your actual personality, you are going to attract the, the people that are most going to resonate with your offers and, and, and everything else that you do. So you're doing yourself a favor by bringing the right people into your world.
Nicole: Somebody the other day said to me, she was, I think she was a photographer and she was talking about the tone of voice for her site too, that she wanted. And she said, I don't wanna be, I don't wanna come across as like too slangy or too young because I've seen other [00:16:00] photographers out there who say like, I'll do shots with you and stuff like that.
So you can use your unique voice to, like you said, attract the people you want, but also. Not attract. the ones you don't.
Kristy: And everything goes smoother from there on out. Right. Because they're, they're gonna resonate with everything that you do. So the that's first five, number six, when all else fails.
This is such a good one. Be clear over
Nicole: clever. Oh, yes. Yes. Because especially since people have such,, limited , attention spans, they need to quickly understand what it is that you do, how you do it, who you serve, that kind of thing. So, you know, we're all trying to be funny and witty, but ultimately you have to be clear if people are confused, they're just not gonna understand your service.
They're not gonna buy from you. So Clarity always wins.
Kristy: And, and in every aspect as well, isn't it, I mean, on, building your website and all we, we try and get cutey and we try and do fun and new things, which is great. But if it makes it harder for them to do the thing we need them to do, then then it's time to go back to simple.[00:17:00]
Nicole: Yeah, for sure. And, and clear, doesn't have to be boring. I will say that like, you can still be creative and fun and, and clear. It doesn't have to be super blah and me, like, you can still have fun with your copy, but just, just make sure it's easy for people to understand.
Kristy: Any other tips you wanna throw in there?
As far as, you know, newer women entrepreneurs who are just getting started, putting together all of the things in the first few years in their business.
Nicole: Yeah. The other thing, and this is a copy tip, I would say is to really be specific because you know how we were talking about people standing out versus not one thing I find is that if you're using really vague generic language, Then you're gonna sound like everybody else.
But when I say be specific, I mean like really paint the picture, tangible details. So for example, if you're saying, okay, you're feeling stressed in your business, that's one way to say it. Or you can say something like you're spending your Friday nights at 11:00 PM, replying to client emails. The second example is way more specific.
And then your reader's like, oh, I can totally picture [00:18:00] that. I've been that person. Or if you're speaking to the, the benefits and the end results, like. You have more time? Freedom. Okay. You can say it like that. Or you can say you can take a random Wednesday afternoon off and have lunch with your friends.
Like just really being specific with your copy. Sometimes. Like I said, not only helps you stand out, but it just makes it more entertaining too.
Kristy: So good. And I think we, we tend to grab those phrases, like time, freedom or whatever it is that we hear so often. And I think when we read it, we almost skim over it because we've seen it so many times.
It doesn't even register, you know, it doesn't even really connect. So that's a great, that's a great tip. Do you wanna talk about industry jargon for a second as well?
Nicole: Like you said, there are definitely phrases that you see all the time and there's nothing wrong with those phrases, but then after a while, Yeah, you just realize, okay, what do they really mean?
And the other thing too is say, for example, on your website. If your copy could literally be applied to any other industry or type of business, then it's too vague. Like if it can [00:19:00] be, if you're a coach and then your copy can be applied to like a florist, then, you know, okay. Something's, something's missing there.
You need more detail, more specific specificity. that's a great, oh gosh.
Kristy: I said that, right. That's a great test that you can do on your own. Copy. Just pull up a page of whatever you have and see. All right. Is this really all me or is. Is this. Yeah, . And, and we tend to know our material really well, and we tend to be, experts in what we do.
So really read through your stuff too, and make sure that you're using language that somebody who's not an expert is gonna, is gonna connect with. Right. You don't wanna use those acronyms that nobody, but you knows , you know I've seen this a lot lately with therapists and they're putting in
All of the codes for all of the things they are, that, that does not help, the reader at all figure out, are you the right person to help me? That sort of thing.
Nicole: Yeah, absolutely. That's why an outside perspective is sometimes so nice. Whether you're just getting somebody else to look at your copy or getting somebody else, who's outside of your industry to write it.
Yeah. That outside [00:20:00] perspective is perfect.
Kristy: Before we go here, I I'd love to ask and I would love to hear from you on this. ,we have a lot of newer women entrepreneurs that listen to the podcast. So as a woman entrepreneur yourself and how I'm sure you've worked with so many women entrepreneurs, what have you got for, your best piece of advice for somebody that's just starting out on their, on their journey?
Nicole: Well, I will share some advice that somebody, a coach gave to me a few years ago. She said, whenever possible to make decisions, not based on who you are today, but future you, which sounds a bit cheesy, but it actually works. So an example for that is a couple years ago, somebody asked me to be a guest on a podcast for the first time and right away, my instinct was like, No way, like I just panicked at first.
Like I hate the sound of my voice. I'm not that interesting. I'm boring. Like, no, I wanted to say no, but then I thought, oh man, my coach just said, think of future you, what would future Nicole say? And I thought, okay, future Nicole would say, sure, I'd love to be on your podcast. And then future Nicole would love doing podcasts, which is funny, [00:21:00] cuz I do I do love doing podcasts now.
So I said yes to that one. And then I realized, oh, it wasn't scary after all. And then I ended up enjoying it. So I'm not saying like to jump leaps out of your comfort zone because there are definitely times when your gut will tell you this is not the right fit and it's okay to listen to your gut. But in other situations, just, you know, Dare to think of the future, you and then, you know, step a little bit outside of your comfort zone, and then you might be surprised by how it ends up.
Kristy: great advice. That's great advice you all right. Wonderful. Well, now you have some more tips, so anybody that's listening and wants to get some more, information. Nicole's actually got a free mini masterclass for us, and we're gonna put the link in the show notes. It's five must haves for a high converting sales page.
So I think we could all probably use this and, and, and get some more tips. Nicole, do you wanna tell us where that is? And I'll put the link in the show notes, but just in case somebody's listening and they, [00:22:00] they can't, they can't see the show notes.
Nicole: Yeah, I think I've got a dedicated landing page for it, but it's also on my homepage if you scroll way down.
So I just created this because like I said, a lot of people come to me and saying like, I want my copy to sell, but I don't want it to sound super obnoxious or icky. So this is really all about writing, feel a good copy. So it feels good to you writing it and it feels good for your readers reading it too.
So yeah, just a few tips there that if you're selling a service, a course, a program, whatever it might be, these tips will come in handy. Excellent.
Kristy: And what have you got coming up? How can people get in touch with you and have you got any programs that are open, fill us in on that
Nicole: well, I have, my key service is a VIP day.
So that's a done for you offering where I will write somebody's copy for them, whether that's website, copy sales page, copy, email copy. I have some copywriting templates on my website but yeah. Excellent.
Kristy: And they can get all that on your site. And we'll link that in the show notes, if you're on a platform, actually that doesn't have show notes, you can also always go to the podcast website, which is [00:23:00] one step empire.com and this show and the links and all of the good stuff is there for you as well.
Well, thank you so much for being with us today, Nicole. I really appreciate it. I think this is gonna help a lot of women, go back, look at their copy,
look at their sites, look at their emails and, and improve them. And that's what we're here to do. So I really appreciate you being
Nicole: here. Oh, thank you.
I appreciate it too. I hope this was helpful. It was, and it was a lot of fun. Thank you. thanks.